I'm not sure about this. On one hand, I'd like to see adapt/courage not matter as much. On the other, it's one of the only things that sets a dog apart in the events... If a/c is taken out I'd like to see a way to raise certain stats more than others when it comes to training for breeding, instead of just being able to get 200 in each. Like allowing people to put a <span style="font-style:italic">small</span> amount of extra points into strength when breeding dogs for weight pull, etc... Maybe it could be done with a revamp of the system for using fame points to up a dogs stats? I know when I'm trying to breed dogs for a certain event it bothers me that all I can do is groom for a long time and hope that stats I'm looking for actually raise.
Personally I've figured out that there is no need to groom if you are only trying to improve Strength, Intelligence, Endurance or Speed.<br>Although those 4 stats cap at 200. They can always improve as birth stats.<br><br>Take my Cape Foxes for example. I groom them to age 3 and breed them for speed. At the moment I have the highest BIRTH speed on the game because I've taken the time to improve their birth speed. Although eventing takes into account the dogs stats once statmaxxed, the birth stats affect the outcome of events as well, and must be taken into consideration when eventing.
If you are only going for one stat that works well, but if you are trying to improve a pair of stats, strength and endurance for example, you could get a pup with high strength and low endurance, a pup with high endurance but low strength, and one with moderate strength and endurance, but there is a very low chance (in my experience) to have a pup with high strength <span style="font-weight:bold">and</span> endurance. I'm just trying to say if a/c isn't as important for events maybe the breeding part of things should be improved a bit, to even things out.
As long as the current levels remain the same, I'm not gonna complain. But I'll be pretty upset of my 600+ to 1k A/C dogs are shot all the way back down to say 250. I'd kinda like to see what others have to say, although it is late so I can see why there aren't too many aditional responses
I think it is really time to do something. No matter what others will say, majority of dogs bred for the event don't do well because of high A/C. You can't keep everyone happy, as a few others have said. I wasn't around at the time Aggro was capped, but talking to a few players who were around, they said some were happy about it, while others weren't. I'm for the cap.
One potential fix could be where the stats stay the same, but only 250 courage/adaptability is actually counted in events. That would allow everyone to maintain their 1k kings while making events more fair. You can still use them for breeding and show them off, but it allows for the game to promote the real eventing.<br><br>Here's some things to think of before you really make a decision. There's obviously more points, more views, etc. <br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Money:</span> Some people are upset over the amount of the money they've spent on gathering these high A/C dogs. While this is founded, think about how much it takes to breed a dog who actually should be winning those events. It costs millions and millions to train up a line, much less breed for a specific purpose. I think all of us have spent money on high A/C dogs and money on our own lines. I can safely say I spend a minimum of 10 mil on every line I do and that's usually just for 8 imports to be trained. <br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Eventing:</span> Some are upset that their high A/C dogs may no longer bring in high amounts of fame or money. Now turn the tables and see how those who don't have high A/C dogs feel. They've spent time to breed and train a specific line for a specific purpose, all to have their dogs fail. They lose out on all of that money and fame they could have otherwise achieved had there not been high A/C dogs.<br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Purpose:</span> The purpose of the game, even stated on the homepage, is to breed, train, and event the best "champion" dog. Imagine if someone joined the game today and they tried really hard to make an incredible tracking dog. They spend real money, virtual money, several hours a day, and work tirelessly to produce a true winner. They go to enter the events and they lose every time. Or even consider those who just join the game and someone gives them a free "show" dog. This show dog is not going to help them in any way while these high A/C dogs are out there, and therefore some will give up because the game is too difficult to play.<br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Breeding:</span> Some users use boarding kennels as a way to rot their imports/line dogs before they start them. Why? Because some breeds have absolutely terrible starting A/C, and if they can get them to rot before breeding, they can knock off a couple generations.<br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Boarding Kennels:</span> Boarding kennels might suffer some lost revenue from fewer boarders or current boarders pulling out if there was a cap. I have a boarding kennel, understand it, and I'm still for some sort of eventing change. Also from the point of view from owners of rotted dogs, the time they waited for them to rot will have been in vain if there is a cap.<br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Personal Breeds & Extended Lives:</span> I do have to disagree with personal breeds. To this day I have yet to see anyone use the extended lives of personal breeds as an eventing tool. I don't see anyone having the patience to enter their dogs for 40+ years of eventing. My breed lives to 70, and as long as I have a say in it, all of my future PBs will live to 70. If someone does begin abusing the extreme lifespans and making it a problem, something could be done then. Why fix something that isn't even being done? As far as long-lived public breeds go, everyone has access to them. If you choose not to use what is <span style="font-style:italic">readily</span> at your disposal, you can't get angry at someone else who does. I specify readily because the amount of worthwhile high A/C dogs is limited, and therefore it does not count.<br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Contests:</span> Take into account Aziu's Dock Jumping Challenge and SimStar's Schutzhund Challenge. Should we really have to rely on special challenges just to find out if our dogs are actually the real champions of the game? Think about this one seriously. <br><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Goals:</span> If we do keep high A/C dogs in eventing, the games purpose is what at that point? Breeding to get the first 10x4 is rather useless. Once they hit 10x4 the lines are usually abandoned, and the most action they get would be to sell the offspring to help recover some of the costs of maintaining the lines.
One potential fix could be where the stats stay the same, but only 250 courage/adaptability is actually counted in events. That would allow everyone to maintain their 1k kings while making events more fair. You can still use them for breeding and show them off, but it allows for the game to promote the real eventing.
<br>I like this idea. MRT also suggested perhaps this only takes affect to dogs of which are created/bred after the cap.<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Money:</span> Some people are upset over the amount of the money they've spent on gathering these high A/C dogs. While this is founded, think about how much it takes to breed a dog who actually should be winning those events. It costs millions and millions to train up a line, much less breed for a specific purpose. I think all of us have spent money on high A/C dogs and money on our own lines. I can safely say I spend a minimum of 10 mil on every line I do and that's usually just for 8 imports to be trained.
<br>Agreed. I know many who have spent millions on high A/C and that's a huge factor in this situation. And it does cost quite a lot to do your own lines.<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Boarding Kennels:</span> Boarding kennels might suffer some lost revenue from fewer boarders or current boarders pulling out if there was a cap. I have a boarding kennel, understand it, and I'm still for some sort of eventing change. Also from the point of view from owners of rotted dogs, the time they waited for them to rot will have been in vain if there is a cap.
<br>I definitely see this scenario coming true. I also have a boarding kennel and wouldn't like to lose "customers" if any of them happen to be boarding at my kennel to increase A/C.<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Personal Breeds & Extended Lives:</span> I do have to disagree with personal breeds. To this day I have yet to see anyone use the extended lives of personal breeds as an eventing tool. I don't see anyone having the patience to enter their dogs for 40+ years of eventing. My breed lives to 70, and as long as I have a say in it, all of my future PBs will live to 70. If someone does begin abusing the extreme lifespans and making it a problem, something could be done then. Why fix something that isn't even being done? As far as long-lived public breeds go, everyone has access to them. If you choose not to use what is <span style="font-style:italic">readily</span> at your disposal, you can't get angry at someone else who does. I specify readily because the amount of worthwhile high A/C dogs is limited, and therefore it does not count.
<br>If this is directed at me at all, I'd suggest rewording "Why fix something that isn't even being done? As far as long-lived public breeds go, everyone has access to them. If you choose not to use what is <span style="font-style:italic">readily</span> at your disposal, you can't get angry at someone else who does." I bring up these things to make a point. I'm not envious of anyone who has a PB of their own, I'm not angry about the subject, and I'm not suggesting it's being done. But my message behind this is how <span style="font-weight:bold">realistic</span> do you guys wanna get with this? I brought up good points that could be considered an issue just like any of the stats are being/have been considered an issue. Additionally, why else does a dog need to be able to live for 40-70 years if it can't breed past the age of 12.6 and taking advantage of/abusing its lifespan "making it a problem" for others who event their dogs with shorter lifespans will be corrected?
Anastasia wrote:<br>One potential fix could be where the stats stay the same, but only 250 courage/adaptability is actually counted in events. That would allow everyone to maintain their 1k kings while making events more fair. You can still use them for breeding and show them off, but it allows for the game to promote the real eventing.<br><br><br>I would be ok with this. I've collected and rotted dogs for a few years. My high a/c dogs are only put in events that they would be good at even if there was no high a/c. I try to mainly put them in events I create and other players that I know use high a/c dogs. If there could be no cap that would be great. I am for the 250 counting for events though.
I personal don`t want a cap on A/C, well because I enjoy seeing wild A/C on some dogs! I think the only way to please everyone is to have groups in events. You know how you can choose if you want only herding breeds in your event or only racing breeds? Well why don`t we just put a choose there too. So you can choose if you want 200 or less A/C, 200-599 A/C or 600+. That way everyone would be happy, and all dogs get a chance to win at events. Boarding won`t lose money, and the cost of getting high A/C dogs won`t drop. Because if your dog gets in that higher range events, that means your dog in more valueable for breeding and selling. Just a though
Babybean, I did not single out any users when making that post. There's nothing hidden among those words. All of those points have been made by several various users. That particular point has been complained about for a long while. Before there was high A/C people complained about long-lived breeds, saying they were unfair. They have done that recently as well. There are almost 500 breeds on VP, all of different lifespans, and therefore anyone's complaint regarding lifespan is fairly unfounded. You can choose long lived breeds or short lived ones, it's just a personal choice. <br><br>As far as the really long lifespan choice, it's a way to set your animal apart, and considering you're spending $95 USD, you should be able to choose your own desired elements without interference. I don't quite understand how lifespans on animals really relates to the topic, which is a stat cap or a change that involves fixing the A/C problem. Considering the lifespan of animals is not currently a problem, it has no relevance here.<br><br>Collie, that would possibly work as well. I think that's a good idea if there cannot be a stat cap or a limit of 250 counting for events. I can imagine showing of those super A/C dogs would be deterred though, as they're no longer competing against an easy win. [And I say that because I only enter my high A/C dogs when there are no other high A/C dogs near their level.] The only downside to the A/C option is there could still be open events, which means the showing for 250 and under might still be extremely limited.
Just sayin. Many arguments of flaws and what's considered "unfair" and whatnot could be made based on what we have available to us in this game. Hence why I didn't flip out, cuz I didn't know if it was specifically directed at me ;D If I do seem angry on here at all though, I'm really not. Debates just get to me and I bring on the biggest impacts I can.<br><br>Anywho. *checks out this new poll*
I really like the idea of having dogs with high A/C but only eventing with 250. I know I have spent a ton of money boarding the dogs for high A/C and it takes a lot of times but I really like how high A/C can get. I do find it unfair when my dogs lose to the 1k+ A/C and the 250 eventing standard wouldl really help improve this situation (:
I like the 250 cap idea even though I'm currently showing some dogs with high A/C. I'd even be for the events only counting 250 of it. It would make the game a lot more fair.
I like the 250 cap idea even though I'm currently showing some dogs with high A/C. I'd even be for the events only counting 250 of it. It would make the game a lot more fair.
Ari implemented a change in coding this morning that limits how much aggro and loyalty affect events. Let us know if you see a difference for good or bad.
<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 204, 0);">Along for the ride!</span><br>
Ari implemented a change in coding this morning that limits how much aggro and loyalty affect events. Let us know if you see a difference for good or bad.
Wow you can definitely see that theirs been a change in the events. My regular A/C dogs had beaten some of the Highest A/C dogs. I like the change so Far you see more people placing in events that they used to get 5th place in.
My Kennel First 8x4's Belgian Laekenois First 9x4's Belgian Shepards First 10x4 Australian Silky Terriers
Ari implemented a change in coding this morning that limits how much aggro and loyalty affect events. Let us know if you see a difference for good or bad.
<br><br>I won't lie, I'm sad that my dogs aren't winning as much now but I'm also happy that everyone is getting a fair chance.
If Adapt and courage where capped there would be no point in boarding kennels. The game and boarding kennels would lose money.<br><br>I know I certainly wouldnt renew my boarding kennel if I knew adapt and courage was cappped in any way. Even if it was only capped for events, what would be the point of leaving dogs in boarding past the eventing cap?<br><br>As owner of a boarding kennel and a strong eventer for a long time in this game, I have to strongly disagree with this idea<br><br>*edit* I would however be ok with limiting adapt in courage in certain events such as weight pulling and racing that should have nothing to do with adapt and courage
If Adapt and courage where capped there would be no point in boarding kennels. The game and boarding kennels would lose money.<br><br>I know I certainly wouldnt renew my boarding kennel if I knew adapt and courage was cappped in any way. Even if it was only capped for events, what would be the point of leaving dogs in boarding past the eventing cap?<br><br>As owner of a boarding kennel and a strong eventer for a long time in this game, I have to strongly disagree with this idea<br><br>*edit* I would however be ok with limiting adapt in courage in certain events such as weight pulling and racing that should have nothing to do with adapt and courage
<br><br>Why only some events? I think its fair for all, I have heap of eventing dogs that I can now use from my lines, instead of using rotting dogs.<br>I still would use my boarding kennel as I neeed to board my dogs in my breeding and training kennels so I can take turns.
@ Brutis - Agreed, but a change will be made regardless. That's why I didn't waste my vote on staying as it should because it won't win and because of my previous sentence. I personally feel more restricted with caps and such, but it's something you have to learn to get accustomed to. Hopefully VP's "upgrade", if you will, will bring more to the table for us players with new and exciting stuff to explore. Not saying the stuff we have now is outdated or left to the ruins, but it does get dull after a while. Adding additional stuff would be great. I know that's kind of off topic, but if there's more to it, eventing doesn't have to be the only thing you really enjoy, therefore the changes in caps or whatever doesn't take as much of a toll.<br><br>I still personally like having limits as a choice. If my first idea can't be done, why not make it an option while creating events to limit the A/C to 250 and under and/or 250+? Like how you could limit it to teams of 4 or singles, or limit it by breed if that is your will. Perhaps make that available for other stats that become a problem in the future as opposed to capping more of them <br><br>
I still would use my boarding kennel as I neeed to boarding my dogs in my breeding and training kennels so I can take turns.
<br>I believe what Brutis is saying, is that boarding kennels are used like half and half for getting dogs out of the way, but also just for increasing A/C. It's likely people will discontinue paying for boarding if there's no additional benefit. Though boarding's purpose isn't for raising A/C, the fact that it does affects people's attraction to it. Before I owned my own Boarding kennel, I just leased all my dogs to novice kennels of mine because I refused to pay for my dogs to sit around (this was before I knew A/C was increased and helped with events). Maybe if I had known it did this and I was into eventing, I -might- invest in it. You personally know me all too well for being quite the miser with my money though ;p Lol. But anyways. My point is that if I didn't own my own boarding kennel, I wouldn't be paying to have my dogs sit there when I also have the choice to lease them to other kennels of mine for free instead. And this will probably become noticable if A/C no longer increases when dogs are being boarded.
But at the same time this change is being talked about so is the "Holding zone" for dogs in training kennels and wait times for breeding kennels. <br><br>You cant take all the points away from boarding kennels. They pay just as much money. Some events are based on adapt and courage. You should have the right to waste your time and VPC on boarding kennels to get the adapt all the way up. It would not be fair to take all the rights away from boarders and hand it to breeders and lines. <br><br>I have done plenty of lines and sure I have felt frustration being beat by dogs with higher adapt and courage. But saying that people do no work by rotting their dogs is ridiculous. It takes a LONG time to get high adapt and courage through boarding, it takes less time to do the training and complete lines. <br><br>I just feel that if this was implemented then the entire point of boarding kennels would be gone. People would lose VPC, boarders will be angry. And the game will lose money because it is one less kennel people renew
@babybean, you should vote no anyway If enough players who have invested money into the game say no then they might not change it. It is much harder to make a change then prevent it. And thanks for agreeing :P
Lol, I voted for no cap but 250 on the events simply because I'd like events changed in some way. Although what you say is true, there will be changes made. I can assume this confidently. Like look. A change was already made not a week after the poll was created, so is it really all that much harder to make a change? I think it's much more difficult preventing a change because there are so many sides to it. And if there weren't so many complaints, the issue wouldn't have become the debate that it is.
I read a lot about the "money" put into the lines. But I mean, think about the not just all the money ($25 to create a boarding kennel or 500 VPC each day you have your dogs rot) but the RIDICULOUS amount of time people have to put into rotting their dogs to have high adapt and courage. <br><br>I hate to sound a little angry but you want to talk about "Fair"? How about spending 500 VPC a day for 2 years(365k) plus the waiting time just to have 1 dog with high A/C. Dont tell people to spend time to breed the higher stats, at one point I had the highest strength pups(before braeton killed me with those neos lol) and still the highest birth stat great danes. So I know what it takes to breed stats, and trust me, I would rather breed the high stat pups in a week then spend the 2 years to get a 1k king. <br><br>I dont even have a 1k(or900) high A/C dog but I am still arguing this, I mean really? I wish I had read this before I renewed my boarding kennel. I am telling you, this has a great reaction from the eventers who dont take the time to rot but instead breed the high stats, but in time you will see the silent backlash from this. Dont underestimate the amount of money VP will lose from people not renewing their boarding kennels. <br><br>I am sorry if I am rambling now, have a great day!
The dogs I have are rescues. None of what I own have been rotting in boarding for so long under my care that they have such high A/C, I got them that way. That's why I don't argue much for the time it takes to get such high A/C because I wouldn't know. But I do know how much people charge for breeding and training, therefore people working on lines are paying a ridiculous amount of money. Like 1 mill+ for ONE dog? Come on now. For the entire line too. Like..it's just crazy. And people do that because they want the dogs done quickly and it's less of a chore if they don't have to do all the training themselves. Myself on the other hand, I refuse to go over 200k on any dog for training Especially when trainers claim how fast they are, how quickly they get things done, how "easy" it is, how they can just "breeze" through it. If it's so easy, why charge so much? Meh, that's a different rant in itself though. Just saying. It's all a choice though. People choose to take the time to rot their dogs just like people choose to pay more expensively to have their lines completed. You don't have to and it's not an obligation, not everyone does it either. So many different sides to the argument.<br><br>I'm just in this cuz I'm sick of caps and want alternatives. I don't even event my dogs but keep them for future use (aka hoard ;p). But when I do get around to eventing, I'd like the advantages my dogs would have. And I'd be pretty ticked if my "1k kings" as they're called were brought down to a lower level because of a cap. At the moment, I only have one 1k A/C dog but plenty of 500+. It amazes me to see how high they can get. I made a thread to keep an updated list of the highest A/C dogs out there though nobody ever posted and it died off. As for people's views of "fair", I always look in different perspectives when I suggest ideas. Stuff that can make most people happy. I like alternatives with choice behind the matter as opposed to "this is what the situation is being changed to and there's no going back" then have to learn to deal. Why? Why make such a drastic ultimatum when there's plenty of options to go around it? That's all I'm fighting for.
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Main/Training Kennel, Boarding Kennel, Breeding Kennel
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Main/Training Kennel, Boarding Kennel, Breeding Kennel
~Visit my main kennel for links to my on going auctions~
On an indefinite hiatus.
Main/Training Kennel, Boarding Kennel, Breeding Kennel
~Visit my main kennel for links to my on going auctions~
On an indefinite hiatus.
My Kennel
First 8x4's Belgian Laekenois
First 9x4's Belgian Shepards
First 10x4 Australian Silky Terriers
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Main/Training Kennel, Boarding Kennel, Breeding Kennel
~Visit my main kennel for links to my on going auctions~
Training Kennel Boarding Kennel Breeding Kennel Rescue/Collection Kennel
Read about and Participate in the VP Awards here please xD
Training Kennel Boarding Kennel Breeding Kennel Rescue/Collection Kennel
Read about and Participate in the VP Awards here please xD
Main/Training Kennel, Boarding Kennel, Breeding Kennel
~Visit my main kennel for links to my on going auctions~
Training Kennel Boarding Kennel Breeding Kennel Rescue/Collection Kennel
Read about and Participate in the VP Awards here please xD
Main/Training Kennel, Boarding Kennel, Breeding Kennel
~Visit my main kennel for links to my on going auctions~